HMH-462 (Never ) Not Appropriate!!!!

[pm3777]

Get sad & weary when I keep seeing "NEVER" on this great Sqd. I served with this unit 14 proud years as hundreds of you good Marines rotated thru Okinawa. I will always be at the reunion as long as this weary old body will go. Sorry didnot serve in 462 while I was on active duty for 21 years 1942-1963. While there I always felt I was still a Marine and a member of that unit. 1973-1987. Get on board for the memory of those we lost at Mindoro, Korea and the sea of Japan!!!! Semper Fi Paul Moore

[J. Heffernan]

Thanks for reminding us Paul.
Huge

[Larry Grimm]

Sep 70 - Oct 71 Good squadron when I was there.
Larry

[John R. Mrak]

Paul,
I seved as 462 Maintnance Control Chief in 74-75 and valued your assistance and knowledge during Eagle Pull and Frequent Wind. Who would have thought of GP grease in the sleeve and spindle when they wouldn't hold oil?

[Frank D. Bermudez]

Paul,
Most 53 Bubbas cycled through 462 before UDP started. I was a Section Leader during Eagle Pull and Frequent Wind, then the Line Chief in '79. I know most all of us were proud to be a member of the "Screw Crew" and we certainly benefitted from your expert knowledge of the aircraft.

Semper Fi

[pm3777]

Hi Huge, almost got back to PA last year as consultant on your Sikorsky Helios. Didnt get the job because the air fare from HI!! Hope the product is sat!!! Great to hear from you. John, thanks for your kind words. I had a hard time with you QA Chief because of "one time war fixes". I explained to him that in a case of war or emergency there were fixes that were temporary and required special handling after the completion of the mission. Example , the sleeves were to be removed, painted red, appropriate entry on the component cards that they were to be removed from the system. Frank, remember you very well from your two tours. It was always a pleasure to work with a professional!!! It is great to hear from all of you , keep up your turns & muster in Oct . Semper Fi PM:)

[john clinton]

Paul,
462 was a great squadron. Everyone in the 53 community rotated through at one time or another. I was there in 75-76 as AMO for a short while, after Jaws (Nick Saunders).

Remember you very well, as well as your lovely daughters. I had a daughter there on my unaccompanied tour that played on the HS basketball team with one of your girls.

Semper Fi,

John

[RDPayne]

I wasn't in '462 In Country, but I was in the squadron at LTA in 1964 and again in 73-74 at Futenma and other points.
We went aboard the Brokinawa, also we soon learned referred to as Bldg. 3, Naval Base, Subic Bay! I guess LPH-3 knew a good berth when it tied up to one!:D

[Duke]

I joined HMH-462 as S-2 Chief in March 1968 as the squadron was stabilizing to deploy to Viet Nam. Two officers and nine enlisted (myself included) went over as the advanced party and finally arrived at Phu Bai about August 4th, 1968. The rest of the squadron arrived near the end of August. I flew as a door gunner until the end of February 1969 when I was promoted from GySgt to 2ndLt. I was then assigned to MAG-36 as the XO of the rifle company and PMO where I served until I rotated back to Force Recon, which is where I came from. I reported back to 2nd Force Recon at Camp Lejeune in October 1969.

I have not as yet been to a reunion but am looking forward to this one. I agreed to be squadron coordinator as a favor to Dave Taylor who was the coordinator the last reunion, but would appreciate any and ALL assistance in this pleasant chore!

Heck, I'm just now learning how to post on here!

Semper Fidelis - Duke Dearing

[pm3777]

Thanks Duke for volunteering!!! We didnt serve in the unit at the same time, am sure you were one of the excellent Marines that I would have remembered during my 14 years!! Hope to meet you at PC. Always a Marine. Semper Fi PM

[Bill Woidyla]

Hope to meet you at PNS, But if you show up in your WW II utilities, I hope you have washed them once or twice since then.
Bill Woidyla HMM type pilot

[pm3777]

BILL; MY FIRST WIFE TOOK CARE OF EVERYTHING I HAD WHEN I TRANSFERRED TO fmr IN 63. I ****CANNED HER AND SHE DID LIKEWISE WITH EVRYTHING IN THE HOUSE. MY DRESS BLUES, GREEN UNIFORM, EISENHOUER JACKET, CANVAS LEGGINGS, MY SOFT HELMET & GOGGLES FROM NAP TRAINING ETC!!! I HAD THE PHOTO I USE ON MY POSTS WHICH WAS A USMC PHOTO WHEN I WAS RECOMMENDED FOR WO. AND TO ADD INSULT TO INJURY AFTER 6 YEARS AS A MSGT IN ALL THE BILLETS THEY DESIGNATED ME A GYSGT ON THE RETIRED LIST. HAVE NOTHING AGAINST GYSGTS BUT RESENTED THE TITLE I HAD EARNED OVER SOME ROUGH YEARS BEING DELETED. HAVE MY FLIGHT SUITS & JACKET FROM VIETNAM , WILL BE SURE THEY ARE PROPERLY WASHED ON THE ROCKS!!! SEMPER FI . PM

[Dave Reavis]

:) I was with 462 from 75-76 at futema and aboard cruise to P.I. had a ball during my tour and would really like to hear from anyone who might remember me . worked on flight line and ran coffee mess while knee was in cast.
sigsbee, moots, lurch, you guys still out there. hope to see all at reunion in Reno.

[Roth]

PM3777,

I was with HMH462 for a VERY short while when it was a composite squadron at LTA in '65.

Started to do the "thing" with the "Deuces", but hated working in so much oil and hyd. fluid. Switched over to the 34's.

Had a good time in the squadron, met a lot of good people. Some of the "Shoefly" guys took a few of us under their wings and taught us a lot that we were able to use in short while during our publicly funded all expense paid fellowship in French Indo China.

[hma1369]

I was at Mindoro in 1977 with HML-367 during "Fortress Lightning". A few of us were flown ashore from USS Denver aboard a "Heavy Hauler" 53. Later, at Cubi Pt., a friend told me that the aircraft we had been on had crashed later in the day while carrying an external load.

[pm3777]

Yes a CH53D did crash at Mindoro in 1977. The HAC was my good friend Capt George Gebhardt he was QA officer & we often flew togather on test flights. As I recall there was about 23 Marines killed and 3 or 4 survivers. George & I had prepared a Mssg on the requirement for the 4 degree tail belcrank (needed for added tail authority because of the added SHaft HP of the newer GE engine). Unfortunately that was part or if not all the cause of his crash. He had a load of Marines picked up at the end of the exercise & was than directed to pick up a water buffalo on top of a narrow ridge. Being near his Max capacity the Helio started rotating and he ran out of left pedal. Also he was on the edge of his ground effect and he tried to lower the collective & dive off the ridge but his tail struck the trees and they plunged down the steep cliff and burned. We made a trip to Pensacola after the investgation proved what I had said about the problem & we finally got the 4 degree bell crank (too damn late in my book!!!) Will never forget that investigation and the bitter feeling with the delayed fix !!! SF PM

[thomas.zuppke]

Seems to me, George referred to himself as the "Black Stallion" when he was a stud in HMT-204 and later on in HMH-461 (both at New River). John Crapse was his c/p that day, I think. The situation he got into became a very familiary scenario, especially with HST, pick up the team and then a water bull. My experience with it was in the Med, early '75. The only thing that saved me is I bottomed the collective in preparation for the the crash, turns came back, rudder came back, thought I'd bent the tail from the way it recovered...at about 4' AGL after several "spins" I was told later. We initially thought it was a weak engine as we had a high time engine on one side...all the other information and unfortunate stories started thereafter. I also seem to recall (Huge can help me out on this) "too tall" Kenny decided to resign when he learned "they" weren't gonna buy the fix and have it installed. He later got work with Sikorsky but supposedly that was after the fact.

Hooper

[pm3777]

I was there for the investigation. George did lower the collective but his position on a narrow ridge resulted in the tail striking trees & complete loss of the TGB & tail rotor. He was not high enough for several rotations as indicated in your case. In fact he completed only one half of a rotation but was over the side of the ridge & could not settle back to land. I am satisfied that the cause was the lack of left pedal authority coupled with the site configuration. The accident board agreed with the info I gave them. Dont know what TOO Tall did or did not, just that we went to Pensacola & pushed through the 4 degree AFC which didnt help some of the program personnel & their careers.I was acussed of giving a copy of the Accident report to Georges wife, which I didnt, but wished I had. The NIS interviewed me twice wanting to hang someone for the fact I had recieved a copy. I flew with George several times and felt he was an excellent well qualifed HAC. TOO many times all accidents are found to be Pilot error!!! SF Paul Moore

[thomas.zuppke]

One of the cockpit procedures that came from all that is we would go to max on the speed control levers before a lift...when the system sensed a droop in power, it compensated seeking maximum power, while when the selectors were at 100% as the NATOPS indicated, the fuel sensors only seeked 100% which a few times was not enough to overcome the power draw on the system.

Can you give me your version of 1/Lt Whipple's ditch in the ocean while returning with a radar crew from one of the outer Okinawan islands? From what I know, this is truly a sad story...for sure the loss of lives, but for the "why" he was trying to complete that mission.

Hooper

[pm3777]

Hooper, I am not sure ,when was that accident?? On the throttle settings, witness at the Mindoro accident said that the Co-pilot had his hands on the throttles full forward and the left pedal full over. The last accident I remember was the crash in the ocean of a CH53 returning from Atsugi. That was all hands lost I believe it was 17. The other CH53 in formation with this one saw smoke or appearance of possible oil fog from the MGB & the A/C started to descend toward the ocean. Part way down the main rotors stopped. One man was seen holding on to the sponson when it sank. The other CH53 desended but he was gone with the helicopter. It was later raised by the Navy & it was found to be a MGB oil pump failure. The one just before that was when Major Rose our Maintenance Officer crashed into a mountain while deployed to Pohang for "Team Spirit". He was on the bottom of a formation of CH53s when they went IFR & the section leader ordered a 180 to return to base. I believe there was 23 or 27 Marines aboard. I vagely remember something of the Whipple accident, can you give me a date or some info? SF PM

[Bill Phillips]

Hooper, I have one correction to your comment about names. Phil Strickland was the "Black Stallion" in 461. George was always called 'Gabby' so far as I know. I agree with both you and Paul about him. I was the CO of 461 when George was designated HAC. He was an outstounding Marine, officer and pilot, and I was very sad when I read about his accident.

[thomas.zuppke]

Bill:
Yes, that makes sense. I believe John Crapse was the C/P (he was a MABster but former CJ pilot before you got there). If you are at the next reunion and I can make it as well, would like to sit down and talk about some of those guys. When I saw you in P'Cola way back when, I was in such awe of all the guys there, all I could do was shake hands and keep from getting weepy eyed. So many things to talk about, probably so little time.

Gonna retire in July, another reason to get my butt to Reno and celebrate life.

Hope to see you there and thanks for the reply.

Hooper

[K.D. Logue]

The Whipple incident was in late Oct or early Nov 1973. Teh copilot was Lt Shackleford.
K.D. Logue

[pm3777]

I remember some about Whipple being ordered to make the pickup after being on another mission where he had reported that he did not know if he had enough fuel for the second leg. Does that fit what any of you remember? After 14 years of events there at MAG-36, some are not clear with me & 8 decades. Semper Fi PM .

[K.D. Logue]

I believe you are right paul, The Ops O told him he had to get it done. There was a typhoon comming

The darndest thing happened last week. I met a Postal inspector who lives in Oregon that was on the 53 that crashed at Mindoro.

He asked me where I was on Oct 17th 1977, I said In the PI. Then he told the story and I was amazed. What a small world. That was a horrible accident. we were out there all night picking up parts of people.

K.D.

[pm3777]

Man it is a small world. Can you tell what story he told you?? Seems some fell out the rear ramp when the helicopter first struck the trees at the top of the ridge. Know what you probably experienced when on the scene. SF PM

[K.D. Logue]

Paul,

He said he had is foot caught in the hell hole and his rifle barrell was wedged in there also. He said in the fire he had the presence of mind to disassemble his rifle and hi foot came out. Broken, but out. His back was broken in several places. He says there is another survivor of the accident here in Oregon as well.

Incidently the Whipple accident was in 1976, not 73 as I wrote earlier.

K.D.

[thomas.zuppke]

The Whipple accident had to be after August of '76.
The sad thing about that accident is that he TRIED TO LAND AT CP HANSEN to top off but it was denied fuel as there was a change of command parade scheduled for the parade field and they didn't want to refill the tire marks the Sea Stallion made in the grass whenever it landed there. "Big Bird" had put the pressure on WHIPPLE to do the mission and he elected to do so. This was well after Mike Hedin/MAJ FLYNN chopped off the top of one Sea Stallion on a test flight ground check and 1/Lt Gale dropped one in the run-up area at Futenma with an apparent hardover while in a hover.
What makes the WHIPPLE situation even sadder was that there was knowledge as to how to configure the Sea Stallion (D) to get almost 40 more minutes of flying time in a cross country situation but the two people who knew about it were forbidden by direct order by "Big Bird" to teach it to anyone.

Hooper

[pm3777]

Still have photos of the "Convertable CH53D" Major Flynn modified. I also remember BIg Bird well; I take credit for giving him that honor. We didnt call him that when he was present. As I recall his claim to fame was on the mining of the harbor at Haiphong ( not a small thing)! SF PM