Marine Helos in Korea

[beddoe]

I asked Mike Leahy to clarify for me which helos the Marines had in Korea, and being a combat artist, his response came thirty minutes later in the form of this picture he drew for me. I was speechless!

[Ryan]

Can Mike or anyone else explain the horizontal stabilizers (diagonal stabilizers?) go with which type. Some had what Mike drew, some had smaller, still others none at all.

Semper Fi,
Ryan

[pm3777]

Was my understanding that the Horizonal stabilizer was mainly to help stabilize in forward flight velocity. The HO5S now in the Kit Plane market had moved the stabilizer up some forward along the tail fuselage with small vertical fins on each end. The newer Sikorsky Helicopters (Blackhawks) Have a horizonal stabilizer that is controlable like on some fixed wing A/C. It is also in the AFCS control system. SF PM

[4frank]

I have viewed this several times and now feel compelled to correct our (your) artist in his sketching portrayal of Marine helicopters in Korea. He either never saw or heard of the HO3S-1 Sikorsky helocopters that were first in Korea, August 1950, piloted, crewed, and serviced by former HMX-1 personnel transferred to VMO-6. It's about time that they were recognized.

[Joe Reed]

PM3777, our own Paul Moore, was a Line Chief in Korea, I'd bank on him getting it right. He remembers EVERYTHING in vivid detail! Let's see what he says about this.

[Crazy Joe]

[FONT="Courier New"][SIZE="4"][/SIZE][/FONT]To PM3777

As I remember my helicopter aerodynamics from HT-8, the horizontal stabilizer in the H-34 was put there to keep the nose from pitching too far down in forward flight. If you look at the stabilizers on an H-34 you will notice that they look like an upside down wing. The curved portion is on the bottom, the flat side is up. In forward flight the A/C attitude is slightly nose down. This causes the stabilizers to "lift" DOWN, just the reverse of a regular wing which lifts UP. The result is that the A/C maintains the designed nose down attitude in forward flight. The fact that the H-34 stabilizers are in a "fixed" position means that they do not operate at the greatest efficiency at all speeds. The Blackhawk stabilizers are moveable to allow the greatest efficiency at all forward speeds.

"Crazy Joe"
HMM-363

[SuperCobra]

I have viewed this several times and now feel compelled to correct our (your) artist in his sketching portrayal of Marine helicopters in Korea. He either never saw or heard of the HO3S-1 Sikorsky helocopters that were first in Korea, August 1950, piloted, crewed, and serviced by former HMX-1 personnel transferred to VMO-6. It's about time that they were recognized.

I've viewed the sketch several times and each time I see the HO3S-1 in it (2nd from the bottom).

[SuperCobra]

Can Mike or anyone else explain the horizontal stabilizers (diagonal stabilizers?) go with which type. Some had what Mike drew, some had smaller, still others none at all.

Semper Fi,
Ryan

Reading old posts tonight I see the responses to this one explaining how horizontal stabs works. I think Ryan's questions was specific to the three different types of HRS (HRS-1, HRS-2, and HRS-3) and which type of stab (or lack thereof) was associated with which model. I think I've got a manual around here somewhere that covers the differences. I'll look for it.

[SuperCobra]

Here is the page out of the album I was thinking of. Not very helpful I guess because it doesn't even list all of the HRS versions. This is out of an Air Force H-19B manual. AFAIK The H-19A, B, and C do not correspond to HRS-1, 2, and 3. IIRC the HRS-1 was a CH-19E.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ndbook0002.jpg

[Ryan]

Reading old posts tonight I see the responses to this one explaining how horizontal stabs works. I think Ryan's questions was specific to the three different types of HRS (HRS-1, HRS-2, and HRS-3) and which type of stab (or lack thereof) was associated with which model. I think I've got a manual around here somewhere that covers the differences. I'll look for it.

Wow, talked about something I haven't thought about in a long time. Looking around I found this.

Gary D on HKN had this to say - "HRS-1 were originally built without the inverted V shaped stabilator. Early in the HRS-2 production the inverted stab was added and was eventually refitted to all Marine HRS variants."

I was getting at the stab differences on the HRS-1's of HS-10 and XM-3 and HRS-2's of HT-16 and HN-2

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...06/HRS-3-2.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...2006/HRS-3.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...06/HRS-2-2.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...2006/HRS-2.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...2006/HRS-1.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...O4S-1HMX-1.jpg

[addymark]

wow its really worth appreciable and i like to see that.
you have post here good helicopter picas and i keen to seat in.
when my dream come true man.
have a good time.

[DELICE]

That is very nice of you... i like the pics ....

[jweliver]

I think that one has been left out. I was with VMO-6 in '51 and '52 and we had some HOK-1's. It is not represented on your list.

[pm3777]

You must be confusing the dates or the VMO Unit number. They had HO3S (Sikorsky) HTL-3 & -4 (Bell). Than replaced by HO5S-1 (Sikorsky) by 1953.. SF PM

[hma1369]

HOK-1s didn't enter service until 1956.

[SIDSIKO]

I have the first HOK-1's being accepted by the Marines in 1953.
Have a look at
http://www.h43-huskie.info/framesetmarines.htm

[Jack Ubel]

I was in HMR161 in Korea both at Ascom City and Munsan ne. Saw VMO 6 helos alot . They had Htl's from Bell and H05S's. Never saw a HOK I agree with PM He should know!!

[SuperCobra]

I have the first HOK-1's being accepted by the Marines in 1953.
Have a look at
http://www.h43-huskie.info/framesetmarines.htm

Thanks for the link. It appears that page contradicts itself though. Later on it says 1956 and all of the other data on that site supports that:

The HOK-1 was flown at the NATC at Patuxent River as early as March 1955, before it was placed in service with Fleet Marine Force units. These were so called BIS-trials. Marine Corps line pilots were assigned to put the machines through the various flight regimes that would be required for field performance after delivery to the Fleet Marine Corps units. Information from these flights was also used to determine serviceability and maintenance requirements. The BIS trials were begun only after factory flight testing had been completed. In about March 1955, an HOK-1 disintegrated in flight over the Chesapeake Bay, killing the pilot. The BIS trials were suspended until the accident investigation was completed. In September 1955, the BIS tests were resumed with five Marine Corps pilots participating. On about Sept 23, 1955, another HOK-1 crashed in the woods a few miles north of Patuxent River. The pilot was killed. The BIS tests were again suspended until the accident investigation was completed. The first deliveries to the Marine Corps began in 1956.