Enlisted Flight Crew and Combat Aircrew Wings?

[accs]

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=3]Question from a retired enlisted Vietnam era Marine.:

If an individual has been awarded 'Gold' Aircrew Wings and 'Combat' Aircrew Wings, are they authorized to wear both sets of Wings at the same time and which takes precedent over the other, and how are they to be displayed?[/SIZE][/FONT]

[Larry Zok]

On the TWS website there are guys with both sets and the Combat Air Crew Wings have precedence.

Edited and added link by Moderator: http://www.togetherweserved.com/usmc/index.jsp

[hma1369]

According to current regs (MCO P1020.34G, Chapt 4, para 4002) you can't wear both at the same time:

j. When two Navy/Marine Corps aviation insignia are worn at a time, the senior insignia will be worn 1/8 inch above the other as follows (from top to bottom):
(1) Naval Aviator and Naval Aviation Pilot

(2) Naval Flight Officer

(3) Marine Aerial Navigator

(4) Naval Aviation Observer

(5) Combat Aircrew. Individual option, but may not be worn with naval aircrew.

(6) Naval Aircrew. Individual option, but may not be worn with combat aircrew.

[Joe Reed]

Larry Zok said:

Combat Air Crew Wings have precedence

He is correct. That means the the CAC wings are worn above the Air Crew wings. Further, AC wings cannot be worn with all uniforms, such as utilities, as CAC can, I believe.

[Marty713]

I earned my Combat Air Crew wings, as a door gunner, with VMO-6 in 1968.

In 1976 with HMM-162 at New River I qualified as a Crew Chief on the CH-46F and earned my Naval Aircrew wings.

At that time I was told by the Admin Officer that I could wear both sets of wings. He explained that in 1968 the door gunner position was NOT a Natops position. Needless to say the crew chief position has always been a Natops position. Therefore, it was legal to wear both sets of wings with the CAC on top.

[Joe Reed]

I have never heard of this practice. Of course, I was released from active duty in 1970, but none of us ever got Naval Aircrew wings for being a Crew Chief. Is this a new deal??

[Slick]

For my money the rule as Tom stated:

(5) Combat Aircrew. Individual option, but may not be worn with naval aircrew.
(6) Naval Aircrew. Individual option, but may not be worn with combat aircrew.

Regardless of recollections current rules apply for wear on uniform.

[Joe Reed]

Slick said it so, I believe it! I would still like to know about the Naval Aircrew for Crew Chiefs though.......

[bonehead]

Having been a crew chief on the UH-1N with HML-267 I was authorized to wear the Naval Aircrew Wings but I never did wear them as my Combat Aircrew Wings had precedence.

[kdlogue]

Slick is correct, one or the other, but not both!

K.D. Logue, 1stSgt USMC (Ret)

[Joe Reed]

I still haven't gotten an answer about the "Air Crew" wings for Crew Chiefs...Is that the current practice these days, to award the Naval Air Crew wings to Crew Chiefs? Slick, K.D., anyone???
Thanks!

[kdlogue]

These days when a Marine completes his Crew Chief training, he is awarded the Gold Air Crew Wings.

This was instituted in about 1971, I think,

K.D.

[Slick]

Joe,
Has always been once a crew chief has completed the syllabus he/she is awarded the Naval aircrew wings while Combat Aircrew wings awarded for flight ops in a combat zone to either a crew chief or crewman (excluding anyone who currently has aviator wings.)
So basically a qualified crew chief could have earned both while a non-crew chief would only be able to earn CAC. Remember there is also aerial observer wings- not to confuse the issue
Not sure what current criteria is but will try and obtain. What seems like eons ago- criteria was 1 airmedal (20 missions) and stars for strike flight.

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Joe Reed]

Slick,
K.D.,
Thanks for the input. I can believe it started in '71, just after my RAD, since none of my associates were ever awarded Air Crew wings. I'm glad the practice was instituted, whenever it started, because of the effort invloved to become a NATOPS qualified Crew Chief on any type of helicopter. The recognition is deserved, I believe.
Appreciate the information, gentlemen! See you both in Fort Worth!