Rating combat wings

[beddoe]

If you can answer, contact BeruitBUL@aol.com
~Bytes

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <BeruitBUL@aol.com>
Date: Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 02:06
Subject: COMBAT AIRCREW WINGS
To: webmaster@popasmoke.com

SIR, WOULD LIKE TO ASK QUESTION CONCERNING RATING COMBAT WINGS. OUR UNIT JUST HAD A 25 YR REUNION OF THE INVASION OF GRENADA. ALL OUR GUNNERS RECEIVED AIR MEDALS FOR COMBAT MISSION IN BOTH GRENADA AND BEIRUT. THE QUESTION IS A VERY SORE POINT WITH US GUNNERS SINCE THE CREW CHIEFS RECEIVED THEM. COULD YOU HELP? WE KNEW TOP CURTIS VERY WELL AS WE SERVE WITH HIM IN GRENADA AND BEIRUT.

T SMITH 82-86
BeruitBUL@aol.com

[John Ace Hunt]

Grenada and Beriut. Well I'll take a shot at this. Beriut Bul, you say after 25 years at a reunion the Squadron awarded the Crew Chiefs Combat Air Medals for the flying done there, and the Gunners did not recieve an Air Medal I should think. I would guess that is their right. 1st, it takes more than just a few Combat Missions before you are awarded the Combat Wings, which I'm sure the Crew Chiefs had before Beruit and Grenada from the flying they had done in Vietnam. I would think you can not be awarded an Air Medal when you don't have Combat wings. There would not have been enough Combat Flying for the gunners to get their wings done there, and then rate an Air Medal for it. There are 2 types of enlisted Wings. The Enlisted Air Crew Wings, gotten out of Air Crew School, and the Combat Air Crew Wings earned only in Combat. The Crew Chief and Gunner are the only Marines that earn Combat Wings. Both wings can not be worn at the same time. Before you can be awarded the Combat wings you have to fly at least a very good number of Combat missions before they are awarded. The 3 Gold stars on them show you engaged the enemy at least 3 times, taking fire, and returning it. In Vietnam you had to be in a combat zone and touch down, or fly fire support in support of that mission, before you were given 1 Combat mission credit, and when you engaged the enemy, you were given 2 mission points. Many of us 'Nam Crew Chiefs wonder if the Crews involved in the evacuation of Saigon were awarded Combat points, as many of us believe Saigon was not a Combat zone at that time. To my knowledge there was not one Bird that took fire, or returned fire during the evacuation. There may have been an Air Medal awarded for it, but I would not think more than one Air Madal was awarded for it. No big deal. If so many Crew Chiefs and Gunners recieved 100 plus combat points in the evacuation. Good for them. I believe if the Gunners flying in Beriut, and Grenada rated an Air Medal, they would have gotten one too. It takes 20 Combat missions before a Crew Chief, or Gunner can recieve an Air Medal. There are single mission Air Medals as well. Hope this in some way answers your question. Semper Fi, Ready-App.

[charlie/fltequip]

charlie/flt.equip. 263/66-67 here;
to my knowledge a crewmember, c/c or gunner, had to fly at least 20 missions to receive their first air medal and combat aircrew wings. I know this changed sometime after 1969, when they came out with strike/flight awards. I know the Grenada crewmembers were awarded combat aircrew wings but I don't know if they were permanent. I know in '66 era you had to have your 20 missions before they were permanent.

semper/fi
charlie

[mecollins]

The key words are "Air Crew" & the criteria for the award is the same for
any crew member regardless of their function aboard an aircraft.
The award should at least be entered on your DD214.
Missions & strike flights are also recorded on AAR's along with names of
pilots & all crew members.
AAR's can be used as supportive evidence in the event that the award does
not appear on the DD214.
All veterans are entitled to a one time replacement of medals & awards by
DOD with such evidence.
S/F

[Allan Holmes]

John, what are Enlisted Air Crew Wings, gotten out of Air Crew School?

Never heard of them.

Went over with HMM-165, then to 164.

Iffen you have the Enlisted Air Crew Wings, do you wear both?

[John Ace Hunt]

al, I didn't have the grades to go Choppers out of Jet School in Memphis, and had to extend for them after my 13 months were up in the 'Nam. I haven't seen a set of them, but from what I understand, they look like small Pilots Wings, and are Gold. Not sure when they were started. I may be wrong, but at least after '67-'68. I started training on EP-11 on april 22,'69, the Hoist Bird, then after 2 weeks, went to #13, the 'Goblin'. The month of May, I had 198 Combat missions, and at the end of the month was awawded my Good conduct, my Combat Wings/w the 3Gold stars, and was promoted to Cpl., at the same time. There is a directive out from the CMC that the Air Crew Wings can not be worn at the same time with the Combat Air Crew Wings. There is a choice though, you can wear either one, but I would prefer to wear my Combat Air Crew Wings rather than just the regular Crew Wings. The difference is which many civillians may not know is that the only way you can earn the Combat Air Crew Wings is when you have spent a good amount of time in Combat. Even Pilots can not earn combat wings. Thats reserved for us. I would believe you went through before the regular wings were authorized. Semper Fi, Ready-App.

[John Ace Hunt]

Charlie, the strike flight stars were in place the start of '69, and before I believe, as I had 4 missions to the Rockpile on the 22nd of April, and 16 missions at cordinates close to the DMZ on April 23 getting the 1st of 21 Combat Air Medals. I didn't get it then, as I didn't rate the Wings at that time. The 1st day I had 4 missions, and the last day I had 44. The last 2 days of Flying in Aug.,25th,35, and 26th,44, I had flown 89 missions into hill 55, with at least 4 more to go when the #2 engine blew the seals in it. The next day was my last take-off, as I was med-evaced then just after. Have a good one. Semper Fi, Ready-App.

[Jack Ubel]

I was amember of HMM 162 and was in Vietnam Jan-Jun 1963. We were issued Combat Aircrew wings w/3 stars on 20 May 1963. Our Air Medals were issued w/ Gold Stars. Numerals were not authorised until sometime in 1965 I believe. I still have my original orders.

[stonko34]

All this conversation about Air Crew Wings really has me confused. Us Korean vintage Rotor Heads didn't have any of this hardware except the Air Medal earned for 15 missions into the Red Zone (enemy territory). Guess I'm just jealous. Anyway, bless you boys, you definitely earned them.

[stonko34]

All this conversation about Air Crew Wings has this old guy confused. Us Korean vintage Rotor Heads didn't have any of this hardware. The only award was the Air Medal given after 15 missions in the Red Zone (enemy territory). Gunners usually were armed with service 38's in shoulder holsters. I guess I'm just jealous. Anyway you guys certainly deserve whatever you got for the sh-- you had to go through. Semper Fi!